Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:12:42 -0500 From: "Beth" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811051510.KAA14441@dexter.ionia-mi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from the -All list. As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for trying to rule the project from the top. Beth ---------- > From: Kay Mason > To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:57 AM > > The only thing that was "grandfathered" was that the current SCs did not > have to be elected! > > We got a fight on our hands it looks like. > > Beth, tell us about the MI CCs.. ?? > > BTW, NT has forwarded Fred's message telling that Joan is the > new SC to the SC list.. Now, should a NC who has resigned do > that? > > Kay > > Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) > From: "Beth" > Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:55:25 -0500 > Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > > > HOOO BOY !!!! Here we go again! Is this the "trickle-down" theory or > > what! > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Fred Bonjour > > > To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM > > > > > > There has been talk of needing elections per the bylaws, > > > My interpretation, one of, I'm sure, many. > > > > > > 1. As an SC in place before the bylaws were in place the old procedures > > that > > > were in place are "grandfathered" thus allowing me to appoint my > > successor. > > > > > > 2. Joan was appointed prior to my resignation, a situation the bylaws do > > not > > > cover (they cover what to do to elect a new SC AFTER my resignation). > > > > > > 3. The Bylaws have cost us a very valuable person, Nancy Trice, our > > National > > > Coordinator, because they are so poorly written. They are proving very > > > difficult to improve. > > > > > > 4. Joan has been filling the role of Asst. SC, as has Denny, since before > > > the "elections", and as stated in your quote, "Those State Coordinators > > and > > > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are > > adopted > > > shall be exempt from election procedures", if anything I was wrong in not > > > publicly announcing her "title". > > > > > > 5. That same paragraph says, I don't have to conduct an election to > > replace > > > myself because as an existing SC I am exempt from such proceedings. > > > (Another way of saying grandfathered). > > > > > > 6. Finally, If an election is required I will NOT step down. I will > > instead > > > expand Joan's existing responsibilities as an Assistant State Coordinator > > to > > > include what I deem necessary to move the project forward. > > > > > > I feel very strongly about this project and the way I've done it is what > > I > > > feel will be the best for the project at this time. > > > > > > BTW, this does point out the weakness of the "bylaws". > > > > > > Fred > > > -- > > > Fred & Carol Anne Bonjour BonjourF@usroots.com > > > Sharing the Excel Opportunity > > > with everybody we see > > > Keep on Excel...ing!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > USGenWeb Census Project > http://www.usgenweb.org/ > http://www.usgenweb.com/ > http://www.usgenweb.net/ > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:14:24 -0500 From: Pam Reid To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <3641F90F.43D783BC@dc.jones.com> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This Michigan situation points out that a lot of people just aren't going to follow the rules! Also, it does point up something that we probably should consider and that is the method of replacement of an SC. I do feel that if Joan is a good choice and the CCs are happy, so be it. BUT, it can't seem like we are allowing a state to walk all over the By Laws. Let me think on this a bit. There has to be a way to let MI have its way without losing face. Beth wrote: > Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard > from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement > for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the > capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. > I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) > to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny > is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of > things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to > the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded > the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any > of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he > says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation > to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, > I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from > the -All list. > > As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but > expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this > passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom > up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps > to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general > feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. > If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we > can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for > trying to rule the project from the top. > > Beth > > ---------- > > From: Kay Mason > > To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:57 AM > > > > The only thing that was "grandfathered" was that the current SCs did not > > have to be elected! > > > > We got a fight on our hands it looks like. > > > > Beth, tell us about the MI CCs.. ?? > > > > BTW, NT has forwarded Fred's message telling that Joan is the > > new SC to the SC list.. Now, should a NC who has resigned do > > that? > > > > Kay > > > > Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) > > From: "Beth" > > Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:55:25 -0500 > > Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > > To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > > Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > > Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > HOOO BOY !!!! Here we go again! Is this the "trickle-down" theory or > > > what! > > > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Fred Bonjour > > > > To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > > > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM > > > > > > > > There has been talk of needing elections per the bylaws, > > > > My interpretation, one of, I'm sure, many. > > > > > > > > 1. As an SC in place before the bylaws were in place the old > procedures > > > that > > > > were in place are "grandfathered" thus allowing me to appoint my > > > successor. > > > > > > > > 2. Joan was appointed prior to my resignation, a situation the bylaws > do > > > not > > > > cover (they cover what to do to elect a new SC AFTER my resignation). > > > > > > > > 3. The Bylaws have cost us a very valuable person, Nancy Trice, our > > > National > > > > Coordinator, because they are so poorly written. They are proving > very > > > > difficult to improve. > > > > > > > > 4. Joan has been filling the role of Asst. SC, as has Denny, since > before > > > > the "elections", and as stated in your quote, "Those State > Coordinators > > > and > > > > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are > > > adopted > > > > shall be exempt from election procedures", if anything I was wrong in > not > > > > publicly announcing her "title". > > > > > > > > 5. That same paragraph says, I don't have to conduct an election to > > > replace > > > > myself because as an existing SC I am exempt from such proceedings. > > > > (Another way of saying grandfathered). > > > > > > > > 6. Finally, If an election is required I will NOT step down. I will > > > instead > > > > expand Joan's existing responsibilities as an Assistant State > Coordinator > > > to > > > > include what I deem necessary to move the project forward. > > > > > > > > I feel very strongly about this project and the way I've done it is > what > > > I > > > > feel will be the best for the project at this time. > > > > > > > > BTW, this does point out the weakness of the "bylaws". > > > > > > > > Fred > > > > -- > > > > Fred & Carol Anne Bonjour BonjourF@usroots.com > > > > Sharing the Excel Opportunity > > > > with everybody we see > > > > Keep on Excel...ing!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > USGenWeb Census Project > > http://www.usgenweb.org/ > > http://www.usgenweb.com/ > > http://www.usgenweb.net/ > > -- Pam Reid in Virginia mailto:pamreid@dc.jones.com LISTOWNER: HEADEN & THORN(E) Branches and Roots http://www.geocities.com/~pamreid Tombstone Transcription Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery Gloucester County VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaglouce/glouces.html Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:29:02 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105112902.007c62f0@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:12 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Beth wrote: How's this as a compromise: Fred annouces that he is leaving and wishes Joan to suceed him asking If any one has any objection. If so would they like to nominate someone else. 2. All in favor of Joan's succesion say yes. all CCs who agree to >Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard >from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement >for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the >capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. > I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) >to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny >is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of >things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to >the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded >the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any >of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he >says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation >to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, >I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from >the -All list. > >As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but >expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this >passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom >up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps >to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general >feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. >If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we >can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for >trying to rule the project from the top. > >Beth > >---------- >> From: Kay Mason >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:57 AM >> >> The only thing that was "grandfathered" was that the current SCs did not >> have to be elected! >> >> We got a fight on our hands it looks like. >> >> Beth, tell us about the MI CCs.. ?? >> >> BTW, NT has forwarded Fred's message telling that Joan is the >> new SC to the SC list.. Now, should a NC who has resigned do >> that? >> >> Kay >> >> Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) >> From: "Beth" >> Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:55:25 -0500 >> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> >> > HOOO BOY !!!! Here we go again! Is this the "trickle-down" theory or >> > what! >> > >> > Beth >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------- >> > > From: Fred Bonjour >> > > To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM >> > > >> > > There has been talk of needing elections per the bylaws, >> > > My interpretation, one of, I'm sure, many. >> > > >> > > 1. As an SC in place before the bylaws were in place the old >procedures >> > that >> > > were in place are "grandfathered" thus allowing me to appoint my >> > successor. >> > > >> > > 2. Joan was appointed prior to my resignation, a situation the bylaws >do >> > not >> > > cover (they cover what to do to elect a new SC AFTER my resignation). >> > > >> > > 3. The Bylaws have cost us a very valuable person, Nancy Trice, our >> > National >> > > Coordinator, because they are so poorly written. They are proving >very >> > > difficult to improve. >> > > >> > > 4. Joan has been filling the role of Asst. SC, as has Denny, since >before >> > > the "elections", and as stated in your quote, "Those State >Coordinators >> > and >> > > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are >> > adopted >> > > shall be exempt from election procedures", if anything I was wrong in >not >> > > publicly announcing her "title". >> > > >> > > 5. That same paragraph says, I don't have to conduct an election to >> > replace >> > > myself because as an existing SC I am exempt from such proceedings. >> > > (Another way of saying grandfathered). >> > > >> > > 6. Finally, If an election is required I will NOT step down. I will >> > instead >> > > expand Joan's existing responsibilities as an Assistant State >Coordinator >> > to >> > > include what I deem necessary to move the project forward. >> > > >> > > I feel very strongly about this project and the way I've done it is >what >> > I >> > > feel will be the best for the project at this time. >> > > >> > > BTW, this does point out the weakness of the "bylaws". >> > > >> > > Fred >> > > -- >> > > Fred & Carol Anne Bonjour BonjourF@usroots.com >> > > Sharing the Excel Opportunity >> > > with everybody we see >> > > Keep on Excel...ing!!!!!! >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> USGenWeb Census Project >> http://www.usgenweb.org/ >> http://www.usgenweb.com/ >> http://www.usgenweb.net/ >> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:39:00 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105113900.007c92f0@citrus.infi.net> Subject: ERROR !!! [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IGNORE THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE... I started to compose something but it got sent anyway. Bob At 10:12 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Beth wrote: How's this as a compromise: Fred annouces that he is leaving and wishes Joan to suceed him asking If any one has any objection. If so would they like to nominate someone else. 2. All in favor of Joan's succesion say yes. all CCs who agree to >Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard >from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement >for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the >capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. > I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) >to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny >is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of >things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to >the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded >the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any >of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he >says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation >to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, >I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from >the -All list. > >As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but >expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this >passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom >up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps >to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general >feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. >If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we >can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for >trying to rule the project from the top. > >Beth > >---------- >> From: Kay Mason >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:57 AM >> >> The only thing that was "grandfathered" was that the current SCs did not >> have to be elected! >> >> We got a fight on our hands it looks like. >> >> Beth, tell us about the MI CCs.. ?? >> >> BTW, NT has forwarded Fred's message telling that Joan is the >> new SC to the SC list.. Now, should a NC who has resigned do >> that? >> >> Kay >> >> Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) >> From: "Beth" >> Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:55:25 -0500 >> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >> >> > HOOO BOY !!!! Here we go again! Is this the "trickle-down" theory or >> > what! >> > >> > Beth >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------- >> > > From: Fred Bonjour >> > > To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com >> > > Subject: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC >> > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM >> > > >> > > There has been talk of needing elections per the bylaws, >> > > My interpretation, one of, I'm sure, many. >> > > >> > > 1. As an SC in place before the bylaws were in place the old >procedures >> > that >> > > were in place are "grandfathered" thus allowing me to appoint my >> > successor. >> > > >> > > 2. Joan was appointed prior to my resignation, a situation the bylaws >do >> > not >> > > cover (they cover what to do to elect a new SC AFTER my resignation). >> > > >> > > 3. The Bylaws have cost us a very valuable person, Nancy Trice, our >> > National >> > > Coordinator, because they are so poorly written. They are proving >very >> > > difficult to improve. >> > > >> > > 4. Joan has been filling the role of Asst. SC, as has Denny, since >before >> > > the "elections", and as stated in your quote, "Those State >Coordinators >> > and >> > > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are >> > adopted >> > > shall be exempt from election procedures", if anything I was wrong in >not >> > > publicly announcing her "title". >> > > >> > > 5. That same paragraph says, I don't have to conduct an election to >> > replace >> > > myself because as an existing SC I am exempt from such proceedings. >> > > (Another way of saying grandfathered). >> > > >> > > 6. Finally, If an election is required I will NOT step down. I will >> > instead >> > > expand Joan's existing responsibilities as an Assistant State >Coordinator >> > to >> > > include what I deem necessary to move the project forward. >> > > >> > > I feel very strongly about this project and the way I've done it is >what >> > I >> > > feel will be the best for the project at this time. >> > > >> > > BTW, this does point out the weakness of the "bylaws". >> > > >> > > Fred >> > > -- >> > > Fred & Carol Anne Bonjour BonjourF@usroots.com >> > > Sharing the Excel Opportunity >> > > with everybody we see >> > > Keep on Excel...ing!!!!!! >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> USGenWeb Census Project >> http://www.usgenweb.org/ >> http://www.usgenweb.com/ >> http://www.usgenweb.net/ >> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:28:21 -0500 From: "Beth Wills" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <01be090b$984806e0$41bb8ecf@default> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michigan does not have it's own set of by-laws. We are currently in the process of doing a survey to see if 1) the cc's want an election or if 2) they are satisfied with the appointment of a new SC. The general concensus thus far is that they want an election, and are willing to elect the person that the old SC appointed. But - they want to vote. The problem is that, now the old SC has decided that if we have a vote, he will NOT resign, but give the person that he has appointed a "wider scope of duties". He does admit that he failed to let us all know that she was working as a Asst. SC. The main Michigan does not list her as an Asst SC. Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep Northeast/North Central Region Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html Beth's Genealogy Research http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm Beth's Genealogy Home Page http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm -----Original Message----- From: estral@switchboard.net To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please >At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >>"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >>couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >>vote for a new SC. >> >>"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >>local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >>Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >>shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >>resign, or are unable to perform their duties." >> >>I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >>indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >>him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. >> >>Any words of wisdom out there? >> >>Beth >> >Beth, > >I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election >will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state >has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede >what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the >discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". > >So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they >would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. > > >Kim Harris Myers >estral@switchboard.net > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY >http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho > >NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board > >Visit the November County of the Month: >Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki > > > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:27:27 -0500 From: Holly Timm To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981105182727.00903880@mail.bright.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Michigan Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How about approaching the newly appointed SC and asking her if she would do something along the lines of a vote of confidnece or some such from the CC's, that way the old SC steps down and the new one starts off with an election approving herself??? Maybe I haven't expressed that well, but might that work? At 05:28 PM 11/5/1998 -0500, Beth Wills wrote: >Michigan does not have it's own set of by-laws. We are currently in the >process of doing a survey to see if 1) the cc's want an election or if 2) >they are satisfied with the appointment of a new SC. The general concensus >thus far is that they want an election, and are willing to elect the person >that the old SC appointed. But - they want to vote. The problem is that, >now the old SC has decided that if we have a vote, he will NOT resign, but >give the person that he has appointed a "wider scope of duties". He does >admit that he failed to let us all know that she was working as a Asst. SC. >The main Michigan does not list her as an Asst SC. > > >Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net >USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep >Northeast/North Central Region > >Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator >http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia >Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator >http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi >Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator >http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html > >Beth's Genealogy Research >http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm >Beth's Genealogy Home Page >http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm >-----Original Message----- >From: estral@switchboard.net >To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com >Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 4:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please > > >>At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >>>"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >>>couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >>>vote for a new SC. >>> >>>"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >>>local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >>>Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >>>shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >>>resign, or are unable to perform their duties." >>> >>>I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board >member) >>>indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >>>him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. >>> >>>Any words of wisdom out there? >>> >>>Beth >>> >>Beth, >> >>I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election >>will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state >>has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede >>what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the >>discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". >> >>So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they >>would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. >> >> >>Kim Harris Myers >>estral@switchboard.net >> >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho >> >>NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board >> >>Visit the November County of the Month: >>Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki >> >> >> > > Holly Timm SE/MidAtlantic CC Representative Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:15:50 -0800 From: "Kay Mason" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811051917.LAA09198@mail.networkone.net> Subject: [Campaign98-L] (Fwd) Re: [STATE-COORD-L] New SC for MI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:37:00 -0800 (PST) Date sent: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:37:15 -0500 From: Tim Stowell Subject: Re: [STATE-COORD-L] New SC for MI To: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com Forwarded by: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com Send reply to: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com If Joan was the Michigan ASC then procedure was certainly followed as the bylaws say that ASCs can be elevated to SC - until an election can be held. At 11:45 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all, >Since I'm in charge of putting out fires on -ALL, it seems >only fair for me to start one here... :-( > >The bylaws have certain requirements about the establishment >of new SCs. Have those requirements been met here? > >This, coincidentally, illustrates how states and counties >are *not* independent of USGenWeb. > >George > >On 4 Nov 98 at 20:43, STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com wrote: > >> >Return-Path: >> >Reply-To: "Fred Bonjour" >> >From: "Fred Bonjour" >> >To: "migen-l list" >> >Cc: "Nancy Trice" >> >Subject: New SC for MI >> >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:36:49 -0500 >> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >> > >> >I would like to announce that Michigan has a new State Coordinator. This is >> >a role that I have filled almost since it's inception. It is a role that I >> >have difficulty giving up. >> > >> >I have found that I do not have the time to give to this project that it >> >truly deserves, for this reason I am turning over the reigns to someone I >> >hope you will all give your support to, someone I believe will give their >> >all to the project. >> > >> >This is a great project, and I love it so much that I feel I have to step >> >down and let the project grow. This is a very emotional and hard move for >> >me to take. I would like to thank all of you for your support and for >> >making the state grow to where it is today. >> > >> >That said, please welcome Joan Brausch to her new role as the MichiganGenWeb >> >State Coordinator. Please give her the support that you have given me. >> > >> >Thank you >> >Fred >> >-- >> >Fred Bonjour bonjour@excelonline.com >> > >> > >> > >> > > > Tim Stowell State Coordinator - NDGenWeb Project USGenWeb Census Project http://www.usgenweb.org/ http://www.usgenweb.com/ http://www.usgenweb.net/ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:04:09 -0800 From: "Kay Mason" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811061505.HAA03783@mail.networkone.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Michigan SC Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT See what just a little prodding from us will do (not to mention the comments on the SC list) Why do I think that this time was chosen deliberately... thinking that we would not do anything ... Kay Date forwarded: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Beth Wills" Date sent: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:02:15 -0500 Subject: [Campaign98-L] Michigan SC To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > Every one can take a big sigh of relief - or at least I can - I just heard > from the newly "appointed" SC and she asked me to keep it private. (I > don't think that any of you guys will spill the beans) But - due to the > amount of activity on the MIGEN list, an election is in the makings and it > looks like there will probably be an election starting this weekend. > > Thanks for your support. > > P.S. Just because they are planning an election doesn't mean that I am > going to hold off posting the results of my poll. > > Beth > > Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net > USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep > Northeast/North Central Region > > Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator > http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia > Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator > http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi > Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator > http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html > > Beth's Genealogy Research > http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm > Beth's Genealogy Home Page > http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm > USGenWeb Census Project http://www.usgenweb.org/ http://www.usgenweb.com/ http://www.usgenweb.net/ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:19:55 -0500 From: "Beth Wills" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <01be0912$cc4b49a0$41bb8ecf@default> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jan - I have not had much experience with this either. Michigan does not have it's own state by-laws (that I am aware of). I am not sure if there are other states that do or not?? Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep Northeast/North Central Region Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html Beth's Genealogy Research http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm Beth's Genealogy Home Page http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm -----Original Message----- From: Jan Craven To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please >Beth and Kim and all >I have a question about the discussion below. >Can a state write by laws that do not conform to the usgw by laws? >We have not done any of this in my state and so I don't have experience >in this. I am just curious......nothing else! ;-) >Jan > >At 04:46 PM 11/5/1998 -0500, you wrote: >>At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >>>"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >>>couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >>>vote for a new SC. >>> >>>"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >>>local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >>>Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >>>shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >>>resign, or are unable to perform their duties." >>> >>>I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >>>indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >>>him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. >>> >>>Any words of wisdom out there? >>> >>>Beth >>> >>Beth, >> >>I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election >>will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state >>has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede >>what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the >>discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". >> >>So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they >>would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. >> >> >>Kim Harris Myers >>estral@switchboard.net >> >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho >> >>NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board >> >>Visit the November County of the Month: >>Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki >> >> >> > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:02:15 -0500 From: "Beth Wills" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <01be0996$70b66aa0$75bb8ecf@default> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Michigan SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every one can take a big sigh of relief - or at least I can - I just heard from the newly "appointed" SC and she asked me to keep it private. (I don't think that any of you guys will spill the beans) But - due to the amount of activity on the MIGEN list, an election is in the makings and it looks like there will probably be an election starting this weekend. Thanks for your support. P.S. Just because they are planning an election doesn't mean that I am going to hold off posting the results of my poll. Beth Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep Northeast/North Central Region Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html Beth's Genealogy Research http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm Beth's Genealogy Home Page http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:44:09 -0500 From: "Beth Wills" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <01be0a00$e02d5e60$82bb8ecf@default> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] NOTICE OF ELECTION Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Look what I got! Success!!! Beth Wills bwills@ionia-mi.net USGenWeb National Advisory Board CC Rep Northeast/North Central Region Ionia County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~miionia Gladwin County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~migladwi Saginaw County MIGenWeb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~misagina/Saginaw.html Beth's Genealogy Research http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/research.htm Beth's Genealogy Home Page http://www.ionia-mi.net/~bwills/genealogy.htm -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Zank To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 2:51 PM Subject: [MIGEN-L] NOTICE OF ELECTION >This is a notice of election for the SC position for the MIGenWeb. > >After a reading the post of the last few day and keeping in touch with >Fred and Joan. We will hold an election for the position of State >Coordinator. > >Fred ask me if I would hold the election. I will as the State >Coordinator of the MIGenWeb Archives. During the election I will NOT >support any nominee, accept an nomination, and abstain from voting. I >will act only as the SC of the archives. > >To keep it fair all nomination and voteing will be done on the list. I >checked the by-law and the only thing I seen on elections were for the >national level. > >All CC's will have one vote. > >I will open the list to nominations Sunday November 8 at midnight. >Nominations will close on Monday November 9 at midnight. > >All nominees will have until Wednsday November 11 at midnight to either >accept or decline the nomination. > >I will open the list to voteing Wednsday November 11 at midnight and >close it on Friday November 13 at midnight. > >Saturday November 14 after my first cup of coffee I will anounnce the >results. > >Does any one know of any CC who isn't subscribed to the Migen-l? Please >contact my privetly so I can contact them and get them subscribed. > > >Thanks >-- >Denny Zank > >Researching the surnames of Adams, Axtell, Babcock, Blower, Bradley, >Cavanaugh, Clarke, Cumings, Fenner, Howlett, Gross, Guiles Jawgno, >Kingley, Kingsley, Montgomery, Myers, O'hara, Perrin, Rice, Root, Ross, >Shaw, Stolp, Traxler, Woulters, Young, Zank > >USGenWeb Michigan Archives >http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/mi/mifiles.htm > >USGenWeb Clinton County Michigan Genealogy >http://www.rootsweb.com/~mibarry/barry.htm > >USGenWeb Clinton County Michigan Genealogy >http://www.rootsweb.com/~miclinto/clintmn.htm > >USGenWeb Eaton County Michigan Genealogy >http://www.rootsweb.com/~mieaton/eatonmn.htm > >United States Internet Genealogical Society >http://www.usigs.org/ > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:09:40 -0700 From: Jan Craven To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105100940.008b0450@mailhost.iamerica.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Beth, I think your idea of writing a message as the area reps to the MI cc's telling them to do what they want to. That is what should be done anyway. If we need to get involved after that, then RATS.....I mean, fine. I think we should bend over backwards in state problems to let them handle it themselves. On the other hand, if they are not gonna follow the bylaws........... Whew! Jan At 10:12 AM 11/5/1998 -0500, you wrote: >Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard >from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement >for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the >capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. > I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) >to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny >is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of >things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to >the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded >the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any >of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he >says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation >to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, >I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from >the -All list. > >As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but >expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this >passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom >up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps >to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general >feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. >If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we >can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for >trying to rule the project from the top. > >Beth > ate: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:26:26 -0800 From: "Kay Mason" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811051428.GAA18105@mail.networkone.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Beth, I think that you and Bob and Kim need to get involved in that today as members of the Board. Offer to set up an election.. we can use the same software we will use for the other one . Make it clear to Fred and to Joan Brausch that the Bylaws mandate an elected SC ... you probably need to write to the MI list too.. Kay Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Beth" Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:41:53 -0500 To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and > "appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a > couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to > vote for a new SC. > > "Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the > local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted > shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, > resign, or are unable to perform their duties." > > I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) > indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist > him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > Beth > > USGenWeb Census Project http://www.usgenweb.org/ http://www.usgenweb.com/ http://www.usgenweb.net/ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:53:20 -0800 From: "Kay Mason" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811122355.PAA17387@mail.networkone.net> Subject: [Campaign98-L] heads up on SC list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Fred Bonjour, the outgoing MI SC mail is bouncing on the SC list.. the notice says that his outbox is full.. I'm not concerned at this time about his bouncing off the list.. but will keep an eye on it.. Beth, how is the election going in MI? Kay USGenWeb Census Project http://www.usgenweb.org/census/ http://www.usgenweb.com/ce/nsus http://www.usgenweb.net/census/ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:41:53 -0500 From: "Beth" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811051343.IAA14216@dexter.ionia-mi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and "appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to vote for a new SC. "Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, resign, or are unable to perform their duties." I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. Any words of wisdom out there? Beth Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:23:46 -0800 From: "Kay Mason" To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <199811062325.PAA16892@mail.networkone.net> Subject: [Campaign98-L] (Fwd) Re: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT FYI from a friend of mine...RE: MI SC ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- I think this one is going to get nipped in the bud. Most all CC's are writing in saying that his appointment is fine but we must have an election to make it legal. ---------- USGenWeb Census Project http://www.usgenweb.org/census/ http://www.usgenweb.com/ce/nsus http://www.usgenweb.net/census/ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:12:10 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105151210.007dde70@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:14 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Pam Reid wrote: >This Michigan situation points out that a lot of people just aren't going to >follow the rules! Also, it does point up something that we probably should >consider and that is the method of replacement of an SC. I do feel that if >Joan is a good choice and the CCs are happy, so be it. BUT, it can't seem like >we are allowing a state to walk all over the By Laws. Let me think on this a >bit. There has to be a way to let MI have its way without losing face. > Apparently Joan never was officially designated as ASC. Therefore, an election is in order, in accord with the by-laws. There is nothing that says HOW that election should be held. If Fred wants to do a straw poll and gets enough votes, so be it. We have no input into the workings of the state except to insure that what is done is done with the advice and consent of the CCs. Bob ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:35:38 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105103538.007c19d0@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Beth wrote: >Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >vote for a new SC. > For Fred to "appoint" a new SC violates both the intent and spirit of the by-laws. The intent was simply to have an SC who was approved by and represented the CCs. The CCs ARE USGW. If his choice for SC is good enough to replace him he should have no quals about holding an election. There is nothing to say that he cannot support, recommend her etc. There is also nothing that defines the rules for an SC election so the state can administer it in way deemed fair by the CCs In short the CC Decide NOT some lame duck SC. If the state wishes to have board adminsitration or assistance in setting up the election they can ASK for it. Short of that, and handling any grievances resulting from their mishandling the election it is none of our business. Bob >"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >resign, or are unable to perform their duties." > >I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. > >Any words of wisdom out there? > >Beth > > > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:19:40 -0500 From: Pam Reid To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <3641FA4C.FF1DA623@dc.jones.com> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brilliant, Bob!!! This is a great plan, IMO. And I didn't even have to put my thinking cap on ! Bob Bamford wrote: > At 10:12 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Beth wrote: > > How's this as a compromise: > > Fred annouces that he is leaving and wishes Joan to suceed him asking > > If any one has any objection. > > If so would they like to nominate someone else. > > 2. All in favor of Joan's succesion say yes. > > all CCs who agree to > > >Kay and all - The Michigan coordinators ( the very few that I have heard > >from thus far) seem to think that Joan would be an excellent replacement > >for the SC position. But, I was not aware that she was working in the > >capacity of assistant SC. The only one that I was aware of was Denny Zank. > > I believe that it was announced some time ago that he was named (by Fred) > >to be the assistant SC. The Michigan state web page also states that Denny > >is asst SC. Joan has been doing some of the monthly "roll call" types of > >things for Fred for a long time. As far as NT forwarding Fred's message to > >the SC list, is she the NC or not? It seems to me that when she forwarded > >the pw for the lists to the board, that she was not going to be doing any > >of that. I am really stumped. As far as Fred feeling as strongly as he > >says he does about the project ..... He didn't even forward NT resignation > >to list, unless I missed it, and with the amount of mail in my box lately, > >I may have. But, I believe that my only message about the resig. came from > >the -All list. > > > >As Fred states, he will not step down if an election is required, but > >expand Joan's duties instead. I am not sure how to deal with this > >passive-aggressive stance. But if we are going to rule "from the bottom > >up" A message to the coordinators via the MIGEN list from the three reps > >to this region, ought to be written to see how the coordinators in general > >feel. If THEY want an election, I guess we will have to deal with it then. > >If the Michigan CC's are happy with the "appointment" of Joan, possibly we > >can just let it rest. Otherwise, we will be once again in the hot seat for > >trying to rule the project from the top. > > > >Beth > > > >---------- > >> From: Kay Mason > >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > >> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:57 AM > >> > >> The only thing that was "grandfathered" was that the current SCs did not > >> have to be elected! > >> > >> We got a fight on our hands it looks like. > >> > >> Beth, tell us about the MI CCs.. ?? > >> > >> BTW, NT has forwarded Fred's message telling that Joan is the > >> new SC to the SC list.. Now, should a NC who has resigned do > >> that? > >> > >> Kay > >> > >> Date forwarded: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:53:29 -0800 (PST) > >> From: "Beth" > >> Date sent: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:55:25 -0500 > >> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Fw: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > >> To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > >> Forwarded by: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > >> Send reply to: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com > >> > >> > HOOO BOY !!!! Here we go again! Is this the "trickle-down" theory or > >> > what! > >> > > >> > Beth > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------- > >> > > From: Fred Bonjour > >> > > To: MIGEN-L@rootsweb.com > >> > > Subject: [MIGEN-L] New MI SC > >> > > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM > >> > > > >> > > There has been talk of needing elections per the bylaws, > >> > > My interpretation, one of, I'm sure, many. > >> > > > >> > > 1. As an SC in place before the bylaws were in place the old > >procedures > >> > that > >> > > were in place are "grandfathered" thus allowing me to appoint my > >> > successor. > >> > > > >> > > 2. Joan was appointed prior to my resignation, a situation the bylaws > >do > >> > not > >> > > cover (they cover what to do to elect a new SC AFTER my resignation). > >> > > > >> > > 3. The Bylaws have cost us a very valuable person, Nancy Trice, our > >> > National > >> > > Coordinator, because they are so poorly written. They are proving > >very > >> > > difficult to improve. > >> > > > >> > > 4. Joan has been filling the role of Asst. SC, as has Denny, since > >before > >> > > the "elections", and as stated in your quote, "Those State > >Coordinators > >> > and > >> > > Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are > >> > adopted > >> > > shall be exempt from election procedures", if anything I was wrong in > >not > >> > > publicly announcing her "title". > >> > > > >> > > 5. That same paragraph says, I don't have to conduct an election to > >> > replace > >> > > myself because as an existing SC I am exempt from such proceedings. > >> > > (Another way of saying grandfathered). > >> > > > >> > > 6. Finally, If an election is required I will NOT step down. I will > >> > instead > >> > > expand Joan's existing responsibilities as an Assistant State > >Coordinator > >> > to > >> > > include what I deem necessary to move the project forward. > >> > > > >> > > I feel very strongly about this project and the way I've done it is > >what > >> > I > >> > > feel will be the best for the project at this time. > >> > > > >> > > BTW, this does point out the weakness of the "bylaws". > >> > > > >> > > Fred > >> > > -- > >> > > Fred & Carol Anne Bonjour BonjourF@usroots.com > >> > > Sharing the Excel Opportunity > >> > > with everybody we see > >> > > Keep on Excel...ing!!!!!! > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> USGenWeb Census Project > >> http://www.usgenweb.org/ > >> http://www.usgenweb.com/ > >> http://www.usgenweb.net/ > >> > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > "Tools for the New England researcher" > VISIT US AT: > http://www.hertge.com/essex > > e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net > > P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 > Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri > (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- Pam Reid in Virginia mailto:pamreid@dc.jones.com LISTOWNER: HEADEN & THORN(E) Branches and Roots http://www.geocities.com/~pamreid Tombstone Transcription Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery Gloucester County VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaglouce/glouces.html Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:39:12 -0700 From: Jan Craven To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105163912.008bb270@mailhost.iamerica.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Beth and Kim and all I have a question about the discussion below. Can a state write by laws that do not conform to the usgw by laws? We have not done any of this in my state and so I don't have experience in this. I am just curious......nothing else! ;-) Jan At 04:46 PM 11/5/1998 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >>"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >>couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >>vote for a new SC. >> >>"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >>local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >>Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >>shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >>resign, or are unable to perform their duties." >> >>I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >>indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >>him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. >> >>Any words of wisdom out there? >> >>Beth >> >Beth, > >I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election >will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state >has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede >what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the >discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". > >So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they >would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. > > >Kim Harris Myers >estral@switchboard.net > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY >http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho > >NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board > >Visit the November County of the Month: >Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:47:12 -0500 From: To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981105174712.00a22920@mail.eznet.net> Subject: [Campaign98-L] Resignation Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:28 PM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: Not mine. Webster's: 1) To give up an office, or position, especially by formal notice 2) to give possession of; relinquish a claim on. Is that such a problem for people to understand. You resign. You are done. Did he not already resign? >Michigan does not have it's own set of by-laws. We are currently in the >process of doing a survey to see if 1) the cc's want an election or if 2) >they are satisfied with the appointment of a new SC. The general concensus >thus far is that they want an election, and are willing to elect the person >that the old SC appointed. But - they want to vote. The problem is that, >now the old SC has decided that if we have a vote, he will NOT resign, but Kim Harris Myers estral@switchboard.net http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board Visit the November County of the Month: Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:58:11 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105175811.007ca100@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:46 PM 11/5/98 -0500, estral@switchboard.net wrote: >I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election >will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state >has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede >what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the >discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". > >So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they >would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. > Kim, I disagree that a state can adopt by-laws that supercede the national. They CAN define their method of election see the following: >From the by-laws: Section 3. It shall be the responsibility of each state organization to ensure that the state project is in compliance with the stated bylaws of The USGenWeb Project. And: Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, resign, or are unable to perform their duties. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:06:02 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105180602.007cbd80@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:28 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Beth Wills wrote: >Michigan does not have it's own set of by-laws. We are currently in the >process of doing a survey to see if 1) the cc's want an election or if 2) >they are satisfied with the appointment of a new SC. The general concensus >thus far is that they want an election, and are willing to elect the person >that the old SC appointed. But - they want to vote. That's great! Will make for a smooth transition and everybody is happy! >The problem is that, >now the old SC has decided that if we have a vote, he will NOT resign, but >give the person that he has appointed a "wider scope of duties". He does >admit that he failed to let us all know that she was working as a Asst. SC. >The main Michigan does not list her as an Asst SC. > That is stupid and bull headed! Don't quote me :>) Try to reason with him. I personally trust his judgement in selecting Joan and I am happy that the CCs will rubber stamp his choice BUT I will also recommend to the board that the NC (or Acting) remove him if he does not comply and then the board will supervise an election which will, in all probability, result in Joan's election. The CCs have the right to select their own SC! The abov notwithstanding, maybe your approach should be "this makes it legal" and gets "everybodies approval." "You wouldn't want Joan starting off under a cloud." etc. Bob ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 18:07:58 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105180758.007c9100@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:39 PM 11/5/98 -0700, Jan Craven wrote: >Beth and Kim and all >I have a question about the discussion below. >Can a state write by laws that do not conform to the usgw by laws? >We have not done any of this in my state and so I don't have experience >in this. I am just curious......nothing else! ;-) >Jan > See my previous post. By-laws Article XII Section 3. It shall be the responsibility of each state organization to ensure that the state project is in compliance with the stated bylaws of The USGenWeb Project. Bob ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:08:38 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105190838.007aca00@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Michigan Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:27 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Holly Timm wrote: >How about approaching the newly appointed SC and asking her if she would do >something along the lines of a vote of confidnece or some such from the >CC's, that way the old SC steps down and the new one starts off with an >election approving herself??? Maybe I haven't expressed that well, but >might that work? > That's a good alternative to my suggestion but she needs to commit to it before she assumes the SC position. Bob Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:48:56 -0500 From: Bob Bamford To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981106114856.007bc3c0@citrus.infi.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Michigan SC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:02 AM 11/6/98 -0500, Beth Wills wrote: >Every one can take a big sigh of relief - or at least I can - I just heard >from the newly "appointed" SC and she asked me to keep it private. (I >don't think that any of you guys will spill the beans) But - due to the >amount of activity on the MIGEN list, an election is in the makings and it >looks like there will probably be an election starting this weekend. > >Thanks for your support. All's well that ends well :>) Bob I agree on the poll, 12 out of 52 is 25% who care... We just elected an Advisory Board in FL with only 19 % of the CCs voting. AND WE WORRY ABOUT THE -ALL LIST???????? Bob ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESSEX BOOKS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Tools for the New England researcher" VISIT US AT: http://www.hertge.com/essex e-mail: essxbook@citrus.infi.net P.O. Box 811 Lecanto, FL 34460-0811 Phone (CC) Orders: 8 AM - 3 PM - Mon-Fri (352) 527-2270 Fax 24 hrs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:58:02 -0700 From: Jan Craven To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105095802.008a8eb0@mailhost.iamerica.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Beth, You are obviously right. Bylaws state plainly. I think the folks in La would want to elect their own..... Not saying that the person appointed wouldn't be the one elected. I don't have any words of wisdom for you, just support in what you are thinking. Fresh out of words of wisdom! LOL Jan At 08:41 AM 11/5/1998 -0500, you wrote: >Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >vote for a new SC. > >"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >resign, or are unable to perform their duties." > >I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. > >Any words of wisdom out there? > >Beth > > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:46:24 -0500 From: To: Campaign98-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981105164624.00a235e0@mail.eznet.net> Subject: Re: [Campaign98-L] Help me Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:41 AM 11/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Our State Coordinator (Fred Bonjour) for Michigan has just resigned and >"appointed" a new state coordinator. I have already this morning had a >couple of messages from cc's indicating that they thought that we had to >vote for a new SC. > >"Section 8. State Coordinators shall be elected to those positions by the >local-level coordinators within the state. Those State Coordinators and >Assistant State Coordinators in place at the time these bylaws are adopted >shall be exempt from election procedures, unless he/she/they are removed, >resign, or are unable to perform their duties." > >I have sent a note to Fred (as a county coordinator, not as a board member) >indicating that I thought an election was in order and an offer to assist >him in setting up for nominations and a vote through the MIGEN-L list. > >Any words of wisdom out there? > >Beth > Beth, I think you are correct in what you say. It may be the election will be a rubber stamp, but so be it. Also, I think that if a state has there own by-laws in place for such an issue, they may supersede what is in the general by-laws. I know there are states which are in the discussion phase of their own by-laws. I believe that is perfectly "legal". So, does Michigan have their own project by-laws? If not, they would have to function under the usgenweb by-laws, as I understand it. Kim Harris Myers estral@switchboard.net http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb NYGenweb Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~nycattar Cattaraugus Co, NY http://www.rootsweb.com/~idlemhi Lemhi Co, Idaho NE & NC Region SC rep USGenweb Advisory Board Visit the November County of the Month: Tompkins County: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nytompki